December 21 2012

Sorry , I'm afraid you lost me Journeyman
Just curious warm water holds far less Co2 than cold water right ? As I have witnessed first hand the coral reefs are going thru a bleaching effect as we speak I am just wondering what do you think the cause of this is ? Thanks in advance ....

Here is a really good informational site about this issue Loyalty.

http://www.nocapandtrade.us/graphs1.htm

In order to avoid a dramatic back & forth drama about global warming with you Loyalty, I submit to you these sites for you to research...

• http://wattsupwiththat.com/

2009 Best science blog award

• http://www.iceagenow.com/

Mensa endorsement

• http://icecap.us/

Especially icecap...

ICECAP, International Climate and Environmental Change Assessment Project, is the portal to all things climate for elected officials and staffers, journalists, scientists, educators and the public. It provides access to a new and growing global society of respected scientists and journalists that are not deniers that our climate is dynamic (the only constant in nature is change) and that man plays a role in climate change through urbanization, land use changes and the introduction of greenhouse gases and aerosols, but who also believe that natural cycles such as those in the sun and oceans are also important contributors to the global changes in our climate and weather. We worry the sole focus on greenhouse gases and the unwise reliance on imperfect climate models while ignoring real data may leave civilization unprepared for a sudden climate shift that history tells us will occur again, very possibly soon. 

Here's a list of the experts (and their impressive credentials) that make up ICECAP
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/experts

Use the search or browse the archives to see what they have compared to what the global warming alarmists have.

OK, in looking to find some references for you I find the AGW crowd have seen some reason - they have, in a few sites, split the two processes. Note that this is not how it was as recently as middle last year when we had headlines about AGW causing a rise in acidity due to increased CO2 in the oceans due to rising temps. I hadn't really tracked it since that point.

Now they are offering increased acidity as a separate causative agent to the changes in CO2 content. However they still ahve 1998 as the prime year for bleaching effects & that's downright impossible - the ocean simply doesn't respond that fast to atmospheric changes - it may cause them but it takes years for the ocean to alter as the atmosphere changes. It is a heat sink with all that implies.

To be honest I am also wondering if my initial reaction was correct - whether I should instead have been calling foul on the reduced CO2 call. While the rest of my post is clearly available out there for anyone caring to look, the CO2 & ocean link is far more tenuous & nobody really understands it yet. For example, recently there is supposed to be acidic sea off the west US or South American coast lines, & the AGW is being blamed, yet that process, (the acidic sea is cold ocean bottom water more replete in much older CO2 from the sea bottom, not the atmosphere) takes at least 50 years to occur, so if AGW was a cause, it was doing it in a period when temperatures were still dropping to the point Scientists & conservationists, including the AGW advocate, Stephen Schneider, were proclaiming imminent ice age.

The whole AGW scam was started by Margaret Mead, Stephen Schneider & a few others back around 1975 when they held a conference at which they decided it is OK to cherry pick data, fudge the figures, exaggerate & lie to get their message across. It was very much made clear that the ends would justify ANY means & the movement since then has made it abundantly clear the decisions of that conference have been faithfully transmitted down the academic halls.

It's available at 1975 ‘Endangered Atmosphere’ Conference if you want to have a read.

And check the sites Murphy posted.

For an explanation of just WHY the Earth is currently cooling take a look at Recaliming Climate Science - a bit less than halfway down the page there's an article about Svensmark's ideas.

If you'd like to read some serious analyses of the statistical 'anomalies' (that's the long spelling for Lies ) check out Steve McIntyre's site - fair warning, bring your math hat if you want to challenge his work, but it si still readable even if your statistics course is decades old.

There's a swag of informed commentary over on Solar Cycle 24 - the Global Warming forum is full of genuine info from interested & interesting minds & the Spacewaether forums are very interesting if you want less targetted commentary about what gives with our Sun & Solar System. Two to make a point of reading are lsvalgaard and vukcevic, but there are any number of serious Scientists on there. A guy called kiwistonewall has done some meticulous tracking of the ice sheets, with data & graphs.

The truth is out there scully... sorry, Loyalty It's just a matter of looking.

They resorted to global warming alarmism because just plain telling folks common sense stuff like breathing dirty air will kill you wasn't scary enough. We do need to clean the air, just ask anybody that's lost a mate to lung disease or is suffering. Right here explains what I'm talking about. The American Lung Assoc. site on outdoor air pollution. http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9O0E ... lution.htm

And don't even get me started on the great Pacific garbage patch... google it up!!! twice the size of the state of Texas and growing fast... this plastic and styrofoam goo floats or is suspended underwater all collected there by currents. Its a calm zone where everything stays in one spot... forever. Fish and other marine life ingest it and get their health degraded by it.

When the solar cycles were strong... the Sun shining on the carbon particles from coal and petroleum exhaust was producing low level ozone and poisoning trees and creating heat waves. Take away all the asphault in highways and roofs on buildings would cure a lot of the heat wave problem... maybe. Soon, we may all be praying for a stronger solar cycle because the bottom may be falling out of them ahead of schedule.

I heard about that Garbage Patch out in the Ocean Bigger then Texas. WOW*

Who's dumping this Crap ?

They may as well starting filling the "Grand Canyon" with it too. (And eventually will no doubt).

When all the water is gone from the planet (Drinking Water) We will start drinking Salt Water.
The Navy does it all the Time on board ship , they convert it and take the salt out.

Now why would the people of this Rock , want to F' Up the Ocean Water ?

Stupid Fools*

Thank you, Journeyman for all of the info. digging in now ....

In 1960, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) published a Plant Hardiness Zone Map. That’s the map you see on the back of seed packets. Farmers and gardeners use the map to learn where it’s safest to plant various kinds of crops.


The Plant Hardiness Zone Map divides the US and Canada into zones. Each zone represents a 10 degree F (5.6 degree C) difference in average annual minimum temperature. Most of Canada lies in zone 1 (below -50ºF), whereas most of Florida lies in zone 9 (between 20º to 30ºF). The higher the number, in other words, the warmer.    

Thirty years later, the USDA compiled a new map. Compare the two maps, and you’ll see that plant hardiness zones in many states have moved south dramatically (meaning that it’s getting cooler).



Take Indiana. In 1960, more than half of Indiana was in plant hardiness zone 6. Today, most of the state lies in plant hardiness zone 5.

Or look at Tennessee. In 1960, all of Tennessee - all of it - was in plant hardiness zone 7. And today? Three quarters of the state lies in plant hardiness zone 6.

Similar declines have occurred in Illinois, North Carolina, South Carolina, Missouri, Kentucky, and many other states.

It’s getting colder . . . and the plants know it.

So does the United States government, at least one branch of it.

Farmers and gardeners need to know it, too, so they can adjust their crops accordingly.

Everyone needs to know it.

http://www.iceagenow.com/PlantHardinessMaps.htm

http://www.iceagenow.com/Its_a_cycle-it ... _cycle.htm

It’s a cycle, it’s a cycle, it’s a cycle!

3 Nov 09 - Listen (free) to this eye-opening interview with author Robert Felix, climatologist Dr. Timothy Ball and meteorologist Joe D’Aleo.
See It’s a cycle, it’s a cycle, it’s a cycle! 

I just finished listening to it and it is very, very eye opening. Joe D'Aleo sounded different than I imagined... they are very impressive, very knowledgeable.

Bold part - WE ARE! The next time you see someone dumping their sweets wrapper, the cellophane off their cake or cigarettes on the street, take a good look. THAT'S who is creating the Garbage Patch. That stuff heads into the storm water drains at the next rain, then through the pipes & out to sea.

Go down to the docks & look at those lovely big ocean liners. Note the 1000 to 5000 people going to have a lovely holiday. Guess where their rubbish goes? Overboard!

Wander along our polluted rivers & look at the garbage floating out to sea. Wander back up along them & see the garbage along the banks where picnickers & people enjoying the lovely scenery have dumped or lost & not recovered their rubbish.

Converting salt water to fresh on a large enough scale to satisfy a city's thirst is a very expensive proposition. You think water is expensive now? Wait till you're paying by the glass for it.

Bottom line is there are too many people on the planet. It could handle almost everything we do to it if we wewren't multiplying it all by 7 billion. Stop and think - 7 billion people have, on average, 1 crap a day. Average it at a poundf weight each time & that's 7 billion pounds of raw sewage, every day, day in, day out. I know of one plant that can clean that much sewage & it is illiegal even in its non-drug form.

They planted 200 acres of hemp plants south of Sydney back in the 90's - dumped thousands of gallons of raw sewage on it & came back 3 months later to find huge plants & clean land. And it's illegal!

Sorry, bit off topic from the climate issue. We can resume our normal programming now, my rant is over.

Afew years ago we had our Septic Tank pumped and I asked the guy what happenes to the
"Slop" they pump , He told me they take it back and it is sent to the treatment plant and then they take it out to Dairy fields and it is Put on the grass the Cows Eat.

That's just Great. The cows are eating liquid Sha-Hit* and it goes into the Milk and we get it right back.

Well since they are filling the Oceans with this Filth , they might as well start using the Grand Canyon. That's One Hell of a Hole to Fill. Bet we could do it damn quick with all the rubbish we toss.